From the beginning I would say that is an unfair comparison between Metzeler Tourance and Mitas E-07, because are a different class, the more appropiate is the Mitas E-08.
The compairison comes from my real life, not sponsored, with real streets.
BMW fans and "quality made in Germany" will cross their hearts on Tourance. Well, after all, Tourance comes almost on all BMWs, even on my Tenere was fitted from factory, so it should be the real deal. Actually is a real deal breaker for anything else than street. But all ADV riders sport one of those tires on their bike.
Tourance is 90% road - 10% off-road. Well, I could pass a short passage of mud with them, but not very easy, and anyway I see most of the time just highway and good quality streets. Like all the BMWs I see, there is no need for more than a 90-10 tire. Maybe yes maybe no.
I changed the Tourance after 5000 Km, the last drop was when I had to start from a red light and the street had like 5% incline, and had just rained. The result was me driving for the next 200m dirt-track style, playing with the clutch and acceleration, while I was trying to get the rear wheel straight and to stop dancing. I almost hugged the terra firma at that point. That being said also on dry, the rear locked easily - yes I am old school I bought the last Tenere without ABS before they stooped producing it, at least for Europe. Yes I also use rear brake and front brake in old school manner, no electronic to do that for me, and I do this already for a long time with dual sports. Tourance was the first tire to get easily locked on rear, also on some curvy roads the rear liked to slide. Ok, I can fault the Tenere also for this, After 20.000 Km I still have a funky feeling on curvy roads, because of the higher weight center. It shined on the highway, there was the perfect place for this tire. Going straight, no curves or just light ones but no emergency brakes, I also locked my rear on the highway, not too funny. Quality made in Germany?!? Maybe for heavier bikes like the big fat BMW adventure, with their 300 Kg and shorter front suspension travel. Maybe there it gets a good firm grip. For lighter ones like Kawasaki KLR or Yamaha XT660Z Tenere, not so good.
I got some Tourances on my KLR and I managed, fair for the tire type, some gravel roads, easy hill trails and small muddy sections. So they are not so bad, they tend to be a bit slippery on wet though.
Mitas E-08, Mitas is a Czech company so for many is just some East European exotic brand, even when you go at a tire shop or some motorcycle dealers, they try to convince you to get some Metzeler or at least Goodyear.
Mitas E-08 is the direct competition for Tourance, with a spin ... they are 80% street - 20% off-road. The difference is more visible between them for the front tire. It cleans itself a tad better than Tourance, and the rear looks similar but the spaces between the rubber patches are a bit bigger, which means better cleaning. One thing common to all Mitas is that they are a bit on the hard side. I always could run with lower pressure without seeing it on the wheel itself. While at the Tourance you see that your pressure dropped, at Mitas you have to check. They perform slightly similar on road and off road. I would buy the E-08 for street only use, especially on rain it handles better because of the bigger spacings. With Tourance on heavy rain and highway conditions I always had the "dancing" feeling, with E-08 was a bit better on the dancing side.
Mitas E-07, one of my favorites after the more enduro oriented E-09, is a true tire pattern for dual sport motorcycles (today called adventure bikes), offering almost a 50 - 50 setup. Maybe the similar Metzeler tire would be Enduro 3 Sahara. But The E-08 has a "chevron" pattern, and what it makes unique at E-08 is that the more worn-out it is, the more street oriented it becomes, since the middle of the tire tends to become a continuous surface patch, while the sides keep their spacing. While it is not perfect for the highway - a bit loud and bumpy while new, gets better with the time - it is very good if you need to drive after the point where the asphalts ends. Some are saying, on the internet, that it is not very good at grip on lower temperatures. It has an M+S sign so I suppose is not designed for summer only, but it comes from the fact that all Mitas tires, at least in dual sport range, are a bit harder as compound. This makes them more resilient to wear at the cost of grip. is like a trade, better grip low mileage, higher mileage lower grip. Been with the tire on highways most of the time, the luxury problems of the first world, but I also used it on forest trails during rain, gravel roads, lots of gravel on the road, muddy sections .... while when is a thick layer of small gravel, they tend to "dance" and bounce quite a lot, and the grip is not as good as with a cross tire, they performed well an wet and dry gravel. I would not use it for this type of trails if I had to drive daily but when you have also regular roads to drive is the perfect mix. I could drive over fallen trees too, so is not so bad as a 50-50 tire.
Durability - depends on the driving, now I have it since 12.000 Km, and more than 10.000 only highway, so it became a bit square, but there is enough rubber left for at least the next 5.000 Km, I had other tires which performed better but without highway drive.
Mitas E-09, the almighty trail eater 20% road - 80% off-road, I had it on my Kawasaki KLE, amazing tire for trails. There is no Metzeler similar with this one The front is more close to an enduro tire than dual purpose, the back is also enduro tire with larger rubber patches. It looks really "adventure ready" and makes the bike look aggressive but comes at a price - on road durability is poor, still better than the enduro ones but less than E-08 or E-07, it is noisy and bumpy, also the grip on asphalt is not its strength but once you get out of the road it is another beast. Is perfect for the type of trails a big dual purpose can do anyways, for more complex needs the bike will be too heavy and too big. So this tire is absolutely more than what this type of bikes can do or are intended to do.
In the end I would say from my experience that the Tourance remains the king of dry asphalt, on wet I would ponder an E-08, but the difference is not so big between them, is more a matter of taste after you tried both.
For highway and occasional light trails, two three mud holes and some gravel I would go for E-07, it held its promises very well with an overloaded Tenere on a stormy day while riding mountain trails and driving over fallen trees.
For better trail experience and no highway E-09, I used it for city too, but its place is where the fun begins.
Soft bags vs. hard bags
This is a never ending subject, like BMW vs Honda or Apple vs the rest of the world, and is discussed on all motorcycle forums. At some point one comes and asks which bag type they should buy. Then the hell get's loose.
My .02 (two cents) on this topic is that each on his own, but the soft bags and hard bags have their own advantages and disadvantages and what suits you this trip, maybe the next one will not.
I will not come with arguments like "even Ted Simon ditched the hard bags for soft bags". Well, it may be true but he had hard bags too. There are some fanatics out there who swear by one or the other and try to convince the rest of the world that they are right.
Let's look again at them but unlike all the forums I have seen just giving a list, I will also talk a bit from my experience.
Soft bags pros:
My .02 (two cents) on this topic is that each on his own, but the soft bags and hard bags have their own advantages and disadvantages and what suits you this trip, maybe the next one will not.
I will not come with arguments like "even Ted Simon ditched the hard bags for soft bags". Well, it may be true but he had hard bags too. There are some fanatics out there who swear by one or the other and try to convince the rest of the world that they are right.
Let's look again at them but unlike all the forums I have seen just giving a list, I will also talk a bit from my experience.
Soft bags pros:
- light: no one can argue this aspect, it is true, they are the champions of lightness. If this is at the top of your list then you have a winner.
- they tend to survive better in a crash: true and false. If the bike just falls yes, it is true, but if the bike is moving you can say hello to ripped textile fabric. While it is true that with a needle you can repair your bags, I can also say that sometimes is not possible. Where a hard luggage will be just dent, you ended up with a ripped soft bag.
- (if) they are waterproof: false and depends, weatherproof is a more suitable word. Even the best material, with a "waterproof" inner-bag (which is not a plastic bag) will become moist after driving for 12 hours through heavy rain. It is a fabric it has texture, you drive with speed and the wind is blowing, somehow the water particles will find a way through the texture. Maybe the core of the luggage will be still dry but the clothes close to the bag will be moist. For this god gave us the thick garbage plastic bags. They keep all the water out.
- easy to put on the bike: true. Depending on the system, if they come with a rack or you just toss them over the saddle, you can have more trouble putting them or no trouble at all, but it is easier than any hard bag.
- the size can vary: true and very useful, being textile can modify a bit the shape to accommodate things inside, and in some models you can put even more stuff inside so they become a bit taller.
Soft bags cons:
- easy to steal from: in general is true BUT you can still use a bit of basic anti theft material. Depending on the model you can use a small lock or some extra cable locks to wrap the luggage. It is true that any idiot with a knife can cut the bag and grab whatever comes in his hand. And one special mention is that they are prone to rather opportunistic thieves which usually destroy more to steal less.
- in case of a fall the content is not at all protected: very true, unless you carry some hard cases in a soft bag but this will not be the case. If you have just clothes then is no problem, if you have electronics, glass or whatever breakable things, there is a bigger chance that you can kiss them goodbye if you land on them.
- if is not a safer area you need to carry them with you even if you stop for an hour: true. They can be more easily taken from the bike by some other people which are not your friends, by the way.
- you can be tempted to take useless stuff just because you can fit it inside: true. Although no one talks about this, the fact that they are more flexible in sizing can tempt you to take more than you need. Been there, done that! You end up with a heavy motorcycle, just because you can put more things in the bags.
Hard bags pros:
- make you look almost as awesome as Ewan McGregor: true. But keep in mind that you are just almost. Hell yeah, they give you the ADV look you see at every Touratech event, every weekend warrior has them on the bike.
- secure and anti theft: true and false. Well is true because in theory it is more safer than a textile bag, if most of the producers wouldn't fit such shitty locks which come anyways at an extra price ... ten times more than they cost. But hey, you have almost the awesome look. Is false because of all the shitty locks they fit and how they fit it. Every Cro-Magnon with more muscle than brain will pop that shit open in a jiffy with a stronger screw-driver. If not the lock but the cheap rivets will pop out anyways. And let's not forget that the aluminium box wall thickness is usually 1.5mm so ...
- waterproof: true. With the assumption that the box has sealed rivets and a good sealing gasket for the cover and you do not consider them submarines. I had no moist in my box even after two full days or riding in rain. I was soaked to the bone but my beer bottle remained dry ....
- can withstand a fall: usually. Depending on the make and how thick is the wall, you have good chances to see them surviving a fall, but being scarred ... aluminium tends to scratch easy.
- if they are bent you can do your justice with a rock: depends. In theory you can reshape a box back to the original shape, at least to finish your journey. But for the price you pay ....
- contents are well protected: depends. As long as your box does not alter its shape too much, the contents will not suffer, or at least not all of them.
Hard bags cons:
- heavy: soooo true. This is the numero uno of the cons. They are really heavy. Well ... maybe 3 Kg per box you say is ok ... but 3 + 3 = 6. And the more bullet proof they are, the thicker the walls, heavier the box.
- the shape of the box can't be changed to fit the content: true. I always use socks and undies to fill the gaps and still I fight to adapt to a rectangular box.
- if it breaks on the road you got yourself an issue: true. As long as you are not a superman, you can't weld with your eyes or with a needle.
- shiny pray for the first league aspiring thieves: true. Because so many of the "true ADV" riders can't help to haul a MacBook to process their photos taken with their professional grade DSLR with professional grade lenses ... which will be uploaded with the existing internet connection from the middle of nowhere ... Well because of them every aspiring thieve thinks that in those shiny boxes there is a treasure in worth of some thousand euros just waiting for them to pop the box open. They do not expect dirty socks though.
There is another option of hard bags .... the plastic ones. They share almost the same issues with their relatives of aluminium family. While they are cheaper, and easy to "weld", they fall also in the heavy weight category.
When to use what:
My rule of thumb is that if I can travel light, do not expect to let the bike and the luggage unattended, do not expect falls which will crash my stuff .... I go for the soft bags. I have a soft spot for them.
If I expect shabby areas and shady characters, one or two falls with valuable content in the luggage, or I need to let the bike and the luggage unattended .... I go for hard boxes.
Other than that ... I ripped my soft luggage just because I did not paid attention when passing through a narrow gate. Would have been just a scratch on the aluminium one. And I scratched them (yes textile can still be "scratched") in a tight curve when I touched the corner of a house .... yes very strange parking spot and I was too lazy.
For the aluminium ones ... since my bike is practically a dildo on wheels .... because of the vibrations, the content inside the box started to "eat" the walls. And there is more vibration on the aluminium panniers as in the soft bags, so I always have to account for that and pack accordingly.
Which one is better?!?! Both and none! I use them on a "what do I need in this trip" base. Today I am with the ADV awesomeness, well almost as awesome, and tomorrow I go with the soft bag because it fits my needs of the day.
I hope you can make your own tests and decide when to use which. It is true that for some of us is expensive to have aluminium boxes, for that I work from Monday to Friday ... so is expensive but not luxury price tag. I do not invest in my car so instead of driving a 50.000+ EUR car I drive just a 2000 EUR car so I can afford to buy stuff for my motorcycle trips, and I am lucky to have both types of luggage.
Off the Road, a company who sucks again - OTR pannier rack and OTR pannier mount
Well my "ADV" friends ... I did it again, I ordered from OTR.... This time I had plans to travel to Eastern Europe so I said that I will go aluminium way, even if I am not a friend of aluminium panniers because is so .... how to say it, even at my workplace they come with their BMW and ALU boxes .... although they only carry air inside, but looks cool.
Well, I ordered some boxes from Bernd Tesch, at least he builds them himself, and you can see it on the boxes that are hand made, not perfect, not tip top shiny unscratched .... but the man in his 70s still works so I respect that more than SW-Motech, Touratech or other crappy "ADV Company". The "problem" is that he sells only the boxes, and I could order from him extra the Touratech pannier rack. But I do not trust it, it looks like ok-ish but the box mount looks shabby.
Long I have searched for a good mix of solid frame and pannier mount, and I stopped again at Off The Road (OTR for fans). Built for XT660Z Tenere, looks strong, the pannier mounts are like I would like to have ... let's give them a try.
Facts:
Overpriced a bit, for both
solid built - touched the terra firma and no sign of bending until now at least
kit is containing "all you need" - I get back to this later
almost well thought and designed - again coming later on this topic.
Now the part where I criticize them, and maybe you will have the same feelings when you pay 250 for the rack and 70 for the mounts ...
Rack issues:
- some screws too short - Dear OTR I pay 250 eur and you give me srews which are too short?!?! And not a good quality too ... do you buy from Baumarkt or OBI, or they are in the luxury class for you? Now really ... how do you build a model specific rack and you give screws which do not fit? The nut did not had enough "screw" to turn more than 2x360 degrees (two rotations) .... Is not supposed to be like the screw tip gets at least to the upper lip of the nut?
- low quality screws and nuts - dudes at OTR, please know that even at OBI I found better ones.
Really, except the two long top screws, the ones in the exhaust area, I had to buy my own .... and this for a 250 euro rack mount with all parts included!!! Well ... up yours mate!
Mount issues:
- again short screws and poor quality ... I broke 4 of them and they did not even got through the aluminium ... or maybe Bernd Tesch uses some sort of super aluminium ...
If you ask why to get trough the aluminium ... is because the screws had a square ending which should deform the rounded hole in order to keep the screw in place while you tighten it. Well ... again I had to buy my own screws for a 70 euro mount .... which by the way is the most expensive on the market. Touratech has its mount for 40. So ...... well done OTR ... up yours again mates!
Another well intended feature of the mount was to have a back-plate. Which is quite well thought .... the bad part is that there are no holes in the plate. You can say I have problems ... but for 70 eur I do have luxury problems. OTR had laser-cut their logo on the mount but did not prepared the holes in the back-plate. Dudes .... Is for your rack, you know the size ... get the drill pattern .... I want it for other rack?!?!? No can't do because your mount can't be used on other rack ... so get the fuck those holes done, I really don't give two dimes on your laser-cut logo, no one can see it anyways, maybe if I my wheels had eyes ... Not to mention, you need to have a drill for the right size and a drill machine. Have fun spending money on that if you don't have those around your house.
I said ... ah ok I do it, fuck that, over priced piece of shit scrap metal .... well it has a top mount and a bottom mount, have fun getting that in perfect position....
Yet another feature, as safety ... the steel rod, well thought but it only works for their boxes, and even so, vibrations + steel + aluminium .... you can get what it happens.... = love, = friction, = holes in your 700 Eur aluminium boxes
After first 2000 Km I stooped at the first shop and cut some part of it. After another 2000 Km I had to use a fuel line to "dress" the steel rod so It does not dig into my boxes. After another 1000 Km I will have to put some protection directly on the aluminium box.
Guys .... you really have good ideas ... but you don't care ... you put shitty screws .... the rod is an amazing anti-theft idea, and with a small lock at least the thief has to work for his bread. But .... think it through ... there are people who can't afford new boxes each trip ... and after I pay 320 Eur for your setup I really do not expect to invest another 50!!! (Not to mention if I did not have any tools to drill holes in your virgin back-plate). Get your shit straight! It does not cost you extra to offer at least the right screw size, and for the volume you buy it does not cost you too much extra to get the right quality. Make a buck, but think at the people who trust you! What would happen if the screws pop during a highway section?!?!?! Well, you sure know the Tenere is like a dildo on wheels ... it should have good screws and the right length, otherwise you can kill me.
I imagine people having that mounted as it is ... as I got it ... with just two turns for each screw to keep the weight and withstand the vibrations. Somehow I consider OTR like small criminals, just for the sake of big buck and cool ADV stuff.
Pros:
Until now they held up ... (note that all screws except 4 of them are mine ... so don't trust me)
OTR laser-cut logo (on the inside anyways)
did not rust so quickly - they started to, but the paint is good
BMW and Touratech fanatics can't understand which other company is out there
Well, I ordered some boxes from Bernd Tesch, at least he builds them himself, and you can see it on the boxes that are hand made, not perfect, not tip top shiny unscratched .... but the man in his 70s still works so I respect that more than SW-Motech, Touratech or other crappy "ADV Company". The "problem" is that he sells only the boxes, and I could order from him extra the Touratech pannier rack. But I do not trust it, it looks like ok-ish but the box mount looks shabby.
Long I have searched for a good mix of solid frame and pannier mount, and I stopped again at Off The Road (OTR for fans). Built for XT660Z Tenere, looks strong, the pannier mounts are like I would like to have ... let's give them a try.
Facts:
Overpriced a bit, for both
solid built - touched the terra firma and no sign of bending until now at least
kit is containing "all you need" - I get back to this later
almost well thought and designed - again coming later on this topic.
Now the part where I criticize them, and maybe you will have the same feelings when you pay 250 for the rack and 70 for the mounts ...
Rack issues:
- some screws too short - Dear OTR I pay 250 eur and you give me srews which are too short?!?! And not a good quality too ... do you buy from Baumarkt or OBI, or they are in the luxury class for you? Now really ... how do you build a model specific rack and you give screws which do not fit? The nut did not had enough "screw" to turn more than 2x360 degrees (two rotations) .... Is not supposed to be like the screw tip gets at least to the upper lip of the nut?
- low quality screws and nuts - dudes at OTR, please know that even at OBI I found better ones.
Really, except the two long top screws, the ones in the exhaust area, I had to buy my own .... and this for a 250 euro rack mount with all parts included!!! Well ... up yours mate!
Mount issues:
- again short screws and poor quality ... I broke 4 of them and they did not even got through the aluminium ... or maybe Bernd Tesch uses some sort of super aluminium ...
If you ask why to get trough the aluminium ... is because the screws had a square ending which should deform the rounded hole in order to keep the screw in place while you tighten it. Well ... again I had to buy my own screws for a 70 euro mount .... which by the way is the most expensive on the market. Touratech has its mount for 40. So ...... well done OTR ... up yours again mates!
Another well intended feature of the mount was to have a back-plate. Which is quite well thought .... the bad part is that there are no holes in the plate. You can say I have problems ... but for 70 eur I do have luxury problems. OTR had laser-cut their logo on the mount but did not prepared the holes in the back-plate. Dudes .... Is for your rack, you know the size ... get the drill pattern .... I want it for other rack?!?!? No can't do because your mount can't be used on other rack ... so get the fuck those holes done, I really don't give two dimes on your laser-cut logo, no one can see it anyways, maybe if I my wheels had eyes ... Not to mention, you need to have a drill for the right size and a drill machine. Have fun spending money on that if you don't have those around your house.
I said ... ah ok I do it, fuck that, over priced piece of shit scrap metal .... well it has a top mount and a bottom mount, have fun getting that in perfect position....
Yet another feature, as safety ... the steel rod, well thought but it only works for their boxes, and even so, vibrations + steel + aluminium .... you can get what it happens.... = love, = friction, = holes in your 700 Eur aluminium boxes
After first 2000 Km I stooped at the first shop and cut some part of it. After another 2000 Km I had to use a fuel line to "dress" the steel rod so It does not dig into my boxes. After another 1000 Km I will have to put some protection directly on the aluminium box.
Guys .... you really have good ideas ... but you don't care ... you put shitty screws .... the rod is an amazing anti-theft idea, and with a small lock at least the thief has to work for his bread. But .... think it through ... there are people who can't afford new boxes each trip ... and after I pay 320 Eur for your setup I really do not expect to invest another 50!!! (Not to mention if I did not have any tools to drill holes in your virgin back-plate). Get your shit straight! It does not cost you extra to offer at least the right screw size, and for the volume you buy it does not cost you too much extra to get the right quality. Make a buck, but think at the people who trust you! What would happen if the screws pop during a highway section?!?!?! Well, you sure know the Tenere is like a dildo on wheels ... it should have good screws and the right length, otherwise you can kill me.
I imagine people having that mounted as it is ... as I got it ... with just two turns for each screw to keep the weight and withstand the vibrations. Somehow I consider OTR like small criminals, just for the sake of big buck and cool ADV stuff.
Pros:
Until now they held up ... (note that all screws except 4 of them are mine ... so don't trust me)
OTR laser-cut logo (on the inside anyways)
did not rust so quickly - they started to, but the paint is good
BMW and Touratech fanatics can't understand which other company is out there
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)